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 Post subject: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:46 pm 
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Been awhile since I’ve posted here. I guess I made myself into something of a pariah due to some of my social commentary/ positions.

In a effort to turn over a new sports/ basketball only subject matter leaf I’d like to pose a question re: head coaching.

Basically, what would make us happy?

Reality is until a coach comes along who expands on CJK’s legacy, his will be the standard all CofC coaches will be held to.

I’m of the opinion that CEG has some significant deficiencies. While we seem to be an excellent ball defense team; our team defense—our help-and-recovery D—is a problem. Plus we’re pretty limited offensively at least in terms of scheme. We struggle against 2-3 zone & when teams throw multiple defenses at us. And these things don’t really seem to be improving. Plus we don’t show a ton of killer instinct: the CJK style of putting your foot on an opponent’s throat when you have them down & putting them out of their misery.

That said, our overall defense is very good and Coach seems to have a knack for recruiting good offensive players who are willing to buy in to playing defense. Individual offensive talent is beginning to overcome some of our lack of scheme/ flow issues. Plus the players I think clearly love him.

I feel like at times I too often dwell on the shortcomings. Perhaps because I too have the ghost of CJK in my head.

Considering our recent coaching issues of player abuse, characters issues, and inability to get back to the tournament and looking at the situations at Colorado State, Georgia Tech, and Louisville; it’s nice to have a guy who is winning who also represents the College with dignity.

So, agreee? Am I off base? How so & how much? What’s the ceiling for this CEG program & how pleased are you at this point?

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:57 pm 
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The basketball landscape has changed tremendously since JK coached. Not taking anything away from.what he accomplished but he never coached in a conference as tough as the CAA from Top to bottom. I have said since Herrions first year I do not compare to JK accomplishments. I judge a coach on whether his team is obviously better at the end of season than they were at the beginning. Grant is the first coach since Kresse I see the obvious improvement during the season.. I have also seen subtle changes in his coaching strategies and think he is becoming a better coach every year.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Nothing wrong with bringing up a point to debate smydauf.

Whatever Earl is or he isn't is too early to tell.
The trajectory is excellent IMO.
We forget that this is only year 4? And year one was essentially a mulligan. Year two we lost Chealey, Riller and Canyon to injury(yet improved)
Last year was Earl's first where he didn't have to manage some massive crisis.

Regarding the specific issues you have with the team. I just dont think there is a coach that can do all that. There isn't enough time in the season to accomplish all that. We don't recruit fully formed players. You get what you can get and try to instill what you can.

We probably wont be able to see a fully developed Earl since P5 programs will probably come knocking after this year regardless of how things end up. His ascent is too fast.
If Georgia Tech comes knocking with a deal like the one Kevin Keatts got? You think Earl is gonna say no?

The JK question is really interesting, and I am probably a contrarian here. I think our desire to try and find the next Kresse is a bit foolish and we just need to get the best candidate we can.

My Goal would be to develop an identity(lets say the defense first John Kresse tree) and have Gregg Marshall ship his most promising assistant to us when a vacancy pops up.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:00 am 
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I was critical of CEG but am singing a different tune. This team has clearly gotten much better over the last month and that is typically a reflection on coaching. I went to school during the Herrion era, whose teams progressively got worse during the season and year to year. Now we have the opposite. That being said, I would pump the breaks on the P5 talk. I think Steve Forbes from ETSU would be ahead of Grant for any ACC / SEC job next year. And it's not like he runs a Kevin Keatts style that can be more attractive. I'd be more worried about an A10 team in 2019 with a vacancy either via a coach getting canned or taking a bigger job. There is already some groaning within the VCU fanbase, Hurley could get plucked from URI, and GW has been treading water.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:06 am 
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It took Keats consecutive NCAA tourneys before he received a power 5 offer. I also in our favor Grant is from here. This is home. His wife Graduated from CofC. She has said this is home. Not saying Grant would.not leave for a huge pay increase. Seriously doubt an A10 school could pay enough to entice him to leave because he has a decent paying job where his roots are

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:09 am 
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Perhaps I am naive into thinking Earl wont leave for an A10 job.
Also I will add the A10 is really really down. There isn't enough star power in the league to create its own gravity. Its just a slightly tougher one bid CAA.

VCU would probably be the only place. They are basketball centric and its a clear stepping stone job where you are set up to succeed, and not too far out of his recruiting footprint.

Rhoades has only been there for a year so probably wont be an issue this summer.(not to mention Shaka Smart will probably be unemployed soon)


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Grant will need multiple years of great results to get a look at the P5 level or even a top A10 level. Brownell led UNCW to multiple NCAA appearances and still didn't get an offer from Clemson until he proved he could do it again at Wright State.

Even if he makes an NCAA appearance this year, I don't think you have to worry about him leaving for at least another 2-3 years at best, and that's only if he can repeat trips to the NCAA in those years.

CofC is in the right place with the right coach at the moment. If you can manage to win the tournament this year, you'll be battle tested enough to have a legitimate shot at an upset in the NCAA tournament. Your half court style of play, built on solid defense always gives you a punchers chance. You've got legit scorers and size in the post to handle some of the P5 size you may face. Of any team in the CAA this year, CofC has the best roster and style of play to advance in the Big Dance. It just feels like it's your year.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:06 am 
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I agree CEG will have to sustain 2-4 years of NCAAT caliber success here before he gets drawn away by a bigger school. Not sure if he would go A10. I wouldn’t. Just not sure the risk/ reward pays off there.

Corollary question: How do you think then the CJK teams would match up w/ today’s team? I’m talking AJ, Harris, Thad, Rodney, etc. v. Chealey, Jarrell, Riller, Cam, etc.

I’m of the opinion the CJK era team was better and would win, say, 7-8/10 matchups. That said, the current team is still evolving & growing so I would not be surprised if they ultimately caught or passed the old guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:50 pm 
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I think the talent level on this CofC team is on par with what we had in the heyday of the early TAAC. I think they are better than the Goudelock cougs.

What those Kresse teams had was an incredible culture of winning that was sustained as built over years. Kind of like the Patriots in the NFL. Those squads just took care of business. They lost games but the head scratchers were few and far between.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Agreed. I also think players/ teams were not as accustomed to the type of pressure D we played back then as they are today. That was an advantage.

Today these players not only see that from other college teams & in HS as well as AAU. And because they play so much more organized ball now w/ AAU they are familiar with a lot more varied defensive looks and are therefore better equipped.

Back in those days with teams it was kind of like the veer quote from Remember the Titans: like Novocain, it just takes time. We’d just overwhelm them and eventually they’d break.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:03 pm 
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"familiar with a lot more varied defensive looks"
Having different looks on defense can be pretty effective.
Playing hard & close (& smart) on defense for 40 minutes can be very effective. Play with your feet, not your hands.
BTW- Kresse's teams always made better use of roll players than we do. Hope that will change. Kresse also frequently had good transfers. Hopefully Miller will be one of those.
I think our big 3 plus Johnson & Pointer are as good as any 5 I've seen in last 30 years. Not as familiar with the Gustafson/Meade/Grace etc. era teams, although there's the NAIA championship in there. 35 years ago?
To the thread, I'm very happy with the coach we have now.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Hard to compare teams from different eras in any sport. Styles of play has changed tremendously. Athletes grow up learning with different things emphasized.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:39 pm 
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I imagine the FBI investigation results will yield a more active than usual coaching carousel season whenever that time comes. We may find coaches who might not ordinarily be in demand yet looking attractive prematurely. Especially ones with high moral character.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:21 pm 
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FBI final report has not been released. That latest ESPN report was one writers overkill trying to bring attention to himself. A Sapawhore attention seeker

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:34 am 
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Sapawhore! So awesome......

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:09 pm 
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The morning show host of the Fan in Pittsburgh wants Earl Grant at Pitt.

http://twitter.com/colin_dunlap/status/ ... 6399194112


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Jobs like that are a such a guaranteed three year fail & career killer which leads to an asst job at campbell. A no getter, high pressure team in the acc, ya, good luck to their next sucker.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:32 pm 
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I believe even if Grant has a desire to step up he would be smart enough not to go to a basketball coaching
grave yard like Pitt.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:23 am 
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Some are already writing up Grant for the Ole Miss job!

https://www.redcuprebellion.com/2018/3/ ... l-athletic


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:44 am 
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coug91 wrote:
Some are already writing up Grant for the Ole Miss job!

https://www.redcuprebellion.com/2018/3/ ... l-athletic

I expect will see more like this. Better to have a coach people want, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:21 am 
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I ran this scenario in my mind. Would I trade an NCAA berth if it meant Earl was gone this year and the answer was yes.
If we win games in the tournament expect the pressure to ratchet up.

I don't think he goes to a place that has no basketball pedigree

One thing I think we have going for us is both Marshall and Brownell would probably advocate not jumping too early


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:50 am 
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matrojan wrote:
I ran this scenario in my mind. Would I trade an NCAA berth if it meant Earl was gone this year and the answer was yes.
If we win games in the tournament expect the pressure to ratchet up.

I don't think he goes to a place that has no basketball pedigree

One thing I think we have going for us is both Marshall and Brownell would probably advocate not jumping too early


Plus John Kresse.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:57 pm 
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We are going to have to up his salary obviously. 309,000 aint going to cut it for a hot commodity like Earl


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:36 pm 
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For Sure,

That and a higher buyout price.
http://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/new ... or-forbes/

That is your floor if you want to keep Earl. Or it least have a shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching expectations
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Something I’m surprised CofC doesn’t have is a coaches show for Coach Grant on either radio or TV. Cremins had one for years, first on radio, then a weekly TV show, then Wojcik had a video 15-minute weekly podcast, but Grant has never had anything like that.

I know Kirkman is notoriously cheap, and spends comparatively little on advertising compared to Citadel/Carolina/Clemson, but there is no reason they can’t carve out an hour a week for a coaches show or for the admin to spend the few thousand dollars it costs it to buy airtime on one of the local stations for a weekly show.

At some schools the coaches receive a stipend for doing one. UNCW has a coaches show, and even Wofford. No reason CofC shouldn’t have one.


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